For many people, a satnav unit is a crucial part of getting around, offering those well-timed tips and directions. However, does the position of it on your car windscreen make a difference? It might make it easier to reach but what many drivers don’t know is that there is only one ‘correct’ location according to police forces.
Police advice
The issue was highlighted following a post by Greater Manchester Police’s traffic unit. The Twitter post contained an image of where drivers should be putting satellite navigation units.
In the image, the unit was positioned at the bottom right-hand side of the windscreen. According to the accompanying tweet, this is the ‘only legal place’ to put it. If you put a satnav unit anywhere else, you are breaking the law.
Twitter users were quick to raise issues with this statement, with many saying they place theirs near the rear-view mirror. GMP later confirmed that this is legal as well – providing it doesn’t obstruct the driver’s view ahead.
© Copyright Andrew and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
Clear view
This stipulation comes from the Highway Code which states that windscreens and windows ‘must be kept clean and free from obstruction to vision.’ However, there is no actual legislation available that states where the devices should be located, merely that their placement should follow this code.
Further, it is unlikely that drivers will be pulled over for ‘incorrect’ positioning of a satnav unit unless they are placing it somewhere ridiculous – like straight in front of them as they drive.
Many drivers make use of specialist holders for the units, that attach to the air vents, to prevent obstruction. While others may place it on the windscreen, in the bottom right or left corner, meaning it is out of the driver’s general view. Also, make sure that the wires are not trailing across either the steering wheel or the handbrake.
Set and forget
Drivers can also get into trouble for messing around and tampering with a satnav while they are driving. Instead, you should either set it before you leave, and not touch it while driving, or pull over, turn off the ignition and then make the necessary changes to the settings.
Other tips in the code regarding how to use technology safely include not ‘relying on’ cruise control or lane departure warnings. You should use them to assist you but not to reduce your concentration levels while driving.
Satnav tips
The AA has created a list of tips to help you make the most of your satnav unit without running into any trouble with the local police force. The tips include:
• Don’t blame the satnav if you have an accident because you are still the one in complete control of the vehicle – it just gives you instructions.
• Use your eyes first – just because the satnav says there is a road ahead, and all you can see a river, use your initiative and don’t keep driving because the satnav tells you to.
• Remember to account for the size of the vehicle you are driving – satnav units only advise you on the route. For example, if you are towing a caravan, the satnav won’t register this information and therefore you may encounter tight corners, low bridges etc.
• Never watch the satnav – listen to what it says but always keep your eyes on the road.
• Check the route before you leave – satnav units are smart but sometimes they may suggest directions that aren’t practical for one reason or another. So, always check before you set off rather than trying to amend the route while driving.
• Make sure you regularly update the unit – as roads change; the satnav will only register these changes when it is updated.
Satnav units are a useful tool and have stopped many a driver from getting lost, but can also cause problems. So, use common sense when utilising them and you should steer clear of the local police.
How often do you rely on your satnav to get around? Have you been guilty of mounting the satnav in the ‘wrong place’? Let us know in the comments below.
The sat nav post is crap as most cars have built in and are in the centre incorporated with radio
Yes, and how dangerous these are as they take your eyes off the road to view the lower centre panel of the car!
Most cars? Only if you’re rich! My 2010 VW Tiguan was hardly cheap and not what most hard working people would call old but it doesn’t have a built in sat nav. Also the older built in sat navs relied on a DVD for updates, only available from the manufacturer, so didn’t ever get updated.
Many people now use their phone and Google maps anyway – to get real time traffic info. Does anyone even use these £2k optional navigation systems in posh cars any more when as long as you have a signal or offline maps downloaded, the phone in your pocket does it for free?
I’ve always placed my sat nav or phone bottom right. The phone Bluetooth s into the car audio and is hands free and only used for sat nav.
That’s rubbish, I would say most cars do not have built in SatNav. Why do you think there is such a wide range of satnav devices widely available on sale from places like Halfords and elsewhere
Recently bought a 2nd hand Auris Hybrid – with no disc. Quoted £220 for replacement, so use (carefully!) my old £70 satnav (when needed)
I never use sat nav as I don’t have one. My husband has one in his car but it is so distracting when driving as it definitely takes your attention off the road, so never gets used. As an HGV Driver he is not allowed by his employer to have a sat nav in his lorry because of the danger they pose. To use your phone or tablet as a sat nav can result in police action as you are using your phone whilst driving, although not calling or texting. Seems the only way is the good old map and pencil before you set off!
What a load of rubbish,I use a satnav when driving back from Spain,not only for directions,but for traffic holdups as well! They are very useful,much better than having to use a map.
Consulting a map (or notes) while driving is much more distracting than a quick glance at a sat nav screen or listening to sat nav instructions. But like everything else, a bit of commonsense goes a long way …
There is so much conflicting advice that us poor motorists don’t know what to do for the best! I use my phone in a cradle(not on the windscreen) and thought that this was ok as it was hands free. We are now being told we are no longer allowed to even touch our device to update maps, etc!
We need clear instruction from the police and not just the local force because they all contradict themselves as well.
I agree that not all cars, even newer ones have built in satnav – mines a 2014 VW Golf SE TDI Bluemotion and I don’t have a satnav built in. I’m now living in Wales having moved here from Bournemouth just over a year ago and have heavily relied on my satnav. Plus, my granddaughter now lives in Bristol so I frequently drive across the Severn Bridge to see her …. I don’t know how I would manage safely if I had to rely on a paper map book …. surely Satnavs are a million times safer than maps as long as they’re used sensibly.
Sensibly is the word but they aren’t the bible that some believe, People that believe they are 100% reliable end up over a cliff, on a railway line or even in a river or off the end of a quay.
Dash Cams are just as big a problem if not more so. Many are not designed to run on battery only unlike my Tom Tom which for most journeys ran without needing wires hanging around.
You can have them wired in Halfords do it on new stuff just bought otherwise its an auto electrician unless you know how to do it
Who on earth still buys a satnav? If you’ve got a smart phone, then use that instead. Google maps and Waze are just as good if not better than TomTom, especially as they update when convenient (or automatically depending on your preference). I’ve driven all over the UK and Europe using these apps, rarely have an issue with them.
Don’t agree with your comment. It’s illegal to touch a mobile phone whilst driving.
As far as I’m aware, not illegal to “touch” whilst driving, only illegal to “hold”.
If the phone is mounted to the car, you’re allowed to operate it I believe. Whats illegal is the use of ‘handheld devices’, ie any device you are holding in your hand at the time.
The phrasing seems to be causing some confusion because a smartphone is by definition, a ‘handheld device’ – it suspect (though I haven’t had it explicitly confirmed) that the intent of the law is to mean “device held in drivers hand while they are driving”
Indeed it’s holding the phone that’s the problem. Which still allows the Police to use their radios and CB radio usage (which has been long accepted for use whilst driving). Although the Police probably use their phones too, which is not illegal either since there’s an exemption for emergencies. I’ve used my phone while driving to ring 911 many times. Touching a phone is no different to touching any other control in the vehicle.
Now if only something could be done about giving way to emergency vehicles at red lights (especially when the traffic from the other directions has already stopped having seen the blue lights). We need a legal exemption to letting them pass.
The advice regarding emergency vehicles, especially at traffic lights, is to pull over if and when safe. You are NOT permitted to drive through lights at red to give way to emergency vehicles.
I use the same Garmin Zumo595 in my car and on my motorcycle. Because it is a motorcycle one it is waterproof to IPX7 which most phones are not.
The battery life on a mobile is pretty rubbish when used as a satnav with the screen permanently powered-up though, which means you then need to have it plugged into a charger. Also the screen size is poor (unless you have a whopping great mobile)!
get a Samsung a5 power is good 5hrs on sat-nav then even longer if you trun power saver on
Doesn’t using a mobile for navigation use up your data allowance?
No……you can switch off your data,at least on the here now app that I use
I use the TomTom app on my iPhone and it only uses a tiny amount of data to give you travel updates for re-routing, etc. All the maps are on-board and use the GPS chip to locate you.
If you want a stanav that takes the dimensions and weights of your vehicle into consideration when it plans a route, “most” phone apps are not up to it (unless you want to spend a lot of cash on a specialist satnav app). Not everyone is travelling in a car!
I have a truckers Sat nav and it has never let me down (yet)
However, the vast majority are in a car. It won’t be long until there is an app that will take your dimensions into account, so personally I would be delighted not to have to carry more unnecessary equipment about.
I have a sat nav which takes me all over Europe towing a caravan it has never let me down or taken me down an unsuitable road. I can put height, width, length and weight number of axles. The price was extortionate £74.74. My phone costs me £12.50pm it allows me to make and receive phone calls and texts. Perhaps I need to get rid of these and pay out £30 or more a month to have loads of technology I won’t use.
A smartphone might be cheaper for you. A £9pm contract would give unlimited minutes + 4G data too, and a basic new smartphone can be had for £50 or so.
I use my phone for satnav (Waze) _and_ Spotify in the car. I have 4GB of data included in my £9 monthly payment and very rarely get anywhere near using that data (Last month I used under 1.5GB of data). To say that unlimited data is needed to use a phone for navigation purposes is so very far from the truth that it makes me want to cry from frustration. When I compare the data used by the apps on my phone (yes, I have an app for that) the data used by the navigation app is small compared to the consumption of the other apps.
Very condecending remark BEX. I don’t have a smart phone and have no need of one. I don’t carry a mobile of any sort. My sat nav suits me fine and I regularly travel europe with no problems.
Ah. A technological dinosaur. I should have known!
Just because someone doesn’t have the latest smartphone, or their life on voice control, just means that they have no need. Those who slavishly absorb the “must have” messages coming from tech companies should consider themselves the dinosaurs for not having a mind of their own.
No he just doesn`t run with the herd, he is an individual & wants to remain so.
I think BEX may be living in an area with very reliable phone coverage. Our area is poorly served and so visitors find the smartphone instructions become unreliable about 5 miles out. Also the unlimited data costs that smartphone / satnav contracts require are rather expensive, especially as it wouldn’t be of much use near home, and I would have to go from £2 per month to £30. The TomTom I have cost far less than an upgrade to a smarter smartphone, and has all of Europe on it, maps for life and gets traffic updates when I have a decent signal. By the way, why do dinosaurs get such a poor press? They lived from 230 to 65 million years ago (165my) probably without the benefit of electronics.
I bought a SATNAV (TomTom) but had to take it back because I could not set it up without a smartphone. Which, if any, are satnavs for pensioners who can’t afford thousands for unnecessary smartphones?
But you still have to mount the smartphone somewhere…
Try driving across Arizona or most of Western Australia using a cellphone and you’ll soon find out where there is no coverage. Although to be honest, in that case, nothing beats a proper map and some serious common sense…..
Can fail MOT if mounted in wrong place.
Or they unmount it and leave it in your footwell unless they are a complete dick
If your satnav shows speed limits don’t rely on them. My latest map update, one year after local limits changed, does not show the new limits.
Plug it into a computer and connect to “My drive connect”, (the tomtom site) and download the latest updates. This should help. Mine registers all speed limits. I have never seen a wrong one.
Who said he has a TomTom?
I have reported several long standing speed limit changes to tom tom which have been totally ignored as is an incorrect instruction when leaving the M62 E bound to head towards Stockport. It puts drivers the wrong side of solid white lines. I have seen many cross them, an endorsable and VERY dangerous manouevre. Tom tom refuse to change the guidance.
Have fun in Edinburgh then, the 20mph speed limits are all over the place, so much so that TomTom have apparently said that they are unable to update their data.
The police advice is actually correct, bottom right hand side of the screen, if the sat nav is mounted in the centre as some like it to be, then the MOT requirement for drivers view is compromised, so the vehicle will fail the MOT test, any where in the swept area will result in a fail,
Nope – the device can protrude up to 40mm into the swept area or 10mm into the 290mm region centered round the steering wheel.
So what about the rear view mirror ? thats in the swept area.
But is a fixed part of the vehicle so is not included in the ruling
Have a closer look Tony, on some cars it is where the black dots are so you can’t see though already
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say Tony! The wipers on most modern cars will sweep a MUCH bigger area of screen than the legally required minimum. The interior mirror will be way above the top of the minimum vision zone.
No it isn’t. Too much depends on the vehicle and the position of the driver’s eyes. When a car is type approved, there’s a prescribed minimum field of view that has to be met. The wipers have to sweep at least “x” % of that zone (can’t remember what percentage it is off the top of my head). Depending on the design of the car, the wipers are likely to sweep MORE than the minimum legally required percentage of the screen, so you can encroach into the swept area with your sat-nav without breaking the law, but you’d need specialist equipment to work out exactly where you can put it. In practice, the “swept area” is a reasonably pragmatic interpretation of the law, so people tend to go with that.
The very fact that SatNav use is being incorporated into the driving test suggests official acceptance and approval of their use.
I can remember in the days before satnav driving along the M25 in the pitch black and pouring rain and getting an announcement on the radio that the road was closed ahead. I recall switching on the interior light and holding my road map on the steering wheel trying to figure out my best route, and I wasn’t the only one. Compared with that, getting an automatic reroute from my TomTom is a million times safer. The problem with satnavs is that many don’t give automatic reroutes and need to be touched. So the official advice is to stop (on a motorway!) and adjust it!!! Don’t be crazy!
I’ve also found that knowing my approximate arrival time in spite of hold ups ahead makes me much more serene when I get into the hold ups.
Several people have commented the dash is the wrong place to have it as you have to take your eyes of the road – presumably, they never look at their speedo! Like any instrument, you have to give it quick glances, and the advantage of the dash is that it can be reached if you need to touch it.
Use Waze app on your phone, will auto reroute around traffic congestion, updates your time as it find faster routes. Simples! Could never go back to a regular dedicated sat nav again.
I stopped using Waze due to it sending me the wrong way too many times. App stopped working after an hour or so. Extremely frustrating!
Totally agree Waze is the best …
Not always. Both my daughter and I we’re making the same route last year (funeral) and good old Google Maps rerouted us and the daughter instead nearly missed the funeral as that didn’t.
Downloaded Waze to my Mobile.
Two weeks later I uninstalled.
Useless.
Are you for real ?
As have Garmin.
TomTom have produced satnavs with automatic reroute for years.
And heaven help you if you take your eyes off the road to look over your shoulder to make sure no one is coming up your right side! Or selecting another station on your radio. Or putting your cigarette out. Or reaching for a tissue… Like most of these news pieces, they are utter bollocks and the authors are just passing on something they heard or read somewhere. A properly fixed SatNav is perfectly legal, as is a properly mounted phone with hands free. Obviously you should not have anything obstructing your vision. The whole crux of the law is that you must not hand hold it but these authors like to miss that bit out for drama. However, I think holding a map on the steering wheel would be frowned upon these days! How did we ever survive?
Just the same as a HUD in many modern cars!
Most sat-navs will do a 30 second countdown to ‘off’ if the ignition is turned off. Stopping in a lay-by and switching off before re-setting the sat-nav is self-defeating.
All that is needed is that the sat-nav be positioned out of direct vision but as easy to check as the rear-view mirror.
As I recall from my days in the Police Traffic (early 80’s) it was illegal to have a television screen or otherwise in the view of the driver. Just wonder of that piece of legislation was ever repealed?.
No, it’s still there, but has been amended to allow “devices that relay information on the vehicle and its position in relation to its surroundings” to the driver – specifically to include sat-navs, reversing cameras, and flash sportscars that don’t have door mirrors but have small rear-facing cameras instead.
I, and most of my friends, position the sat. nav. bottom centre of the windscreen. It can be clearly seen there.
Is it like a sort of club you are in? Where if one friend rebels and positions it differently the other club members wont talk to him ?
… and it doesn’t block your view low down in the middle of the windscreen. Another advantage (although admittedly less important) is that low down in the middle of the windscreen it can also be seen by a front seat passenger assisting with navigation.
i always thought that ANYTHING within the sweep of the wipers was illegal and is certainly an immediate fail on the MOT Test. This renders most of the comments here totally wrong.
The only problem with that is if you are short then it does obstruct your view.
You can get Satnavs from TomTom for caravan drivers. TomTom give incorrect advice – they say mount the unit where you can easily operate it while driving. I always mount it very low and centre on the windscreen where I can see it but it does not obstruct my vision and I can’t reach it while driving.
i was told at speed awareness course that it should not be put on part of the windscreen swept by wipers.
That’s probably the most “common sense” interpretation of the law. So much depends on the vehicle and the height of the driver though.
Does s render a dashcam useless in wet weather though.
Using a mobile – depending on how you use it – as a satnav may be illegal wherever it is positioned so not recommended unless you want 6 points and a fine. The biggest problem associated with satnavs is that idiot drivers razzing along a motorway in lane 3 or 4 do not look ahead for junctions to turn off at and when the voice says “take exit in 800 yards” etc then think they can cross several lanes of moving traffic at 70mph (+) to get on their right route. Satnavs are not a problem in themselves but brain-dead drivers/ lane hogs and incompetents are.
nope….. using a mobile as a satnav is NOT illegal, provided it is cradled. You may be guilty of driving without due care, but that is incredibly difficult to prosecute.
I agree with you whole heartedly
TomTom gives you almost two miles warning.
Audibly?
My Tom Tom certainly gives enough warning both audibly and visually. The worst “Sat Nav” I have ever used is Google Maps as I have had it telling me to make a turn just after I have passed it, and it comes up with some very strange routes.
All satnavs give several miles warning. Clearly the poster has no experience of one and has his own impression of how they work, i.e. he thinks it says turn NOW!
Several miles? Tom Tom and Garman do not give voice warning until almost at turning. They do however have a visual direction but we shouldn’t be looking at sat nav.
Sorry. My Garmin gives first notice on a motorway or dual carriageway at 1.5 miles to to slip road. If yours is only warning just before the turn you have it set up wrong in settings.
My Garmin warns you at about 1.2 miles and again at 0.6 miles!
Janet – I don’t know what satnav you are using but my Garmin DOES give ample warning of any turns at least 1 mile before it is due and then every 100 yards. Better than using a mobile phone which only tells you when you are on top of the turn.
My TomTom gives one and half miles notice of any reason for change of route, whether exiting or advice on lane changes
Both my TomToms give 2 miles warning of motorway exits
If I were you, I would get a new satnav. My TomTom gives at least a mile warning of a junction ahead.
Look in the settings and change the distance you want the warning to go off before getting to the junction you need.
Sorry Alan – Most sat nav’s know you are on a motorway and give you a much longer time warning of the forthcoming exit and allowing you plenty of time to make your way across the lanes. Anybody who is diving off a motorway is as you rightly say “brain-dead” but don’t blame the sat nav. (One of my colleagues use to fall into the trap of coming off the earlier slip road in error due to this built in time allowance!!)
Eh no – the plods are wrong (no surprise there) The Satnav (or indeed any windscreen-mounted device) should protrude more than 10mm into the 290mm area centred round the steering wheel and bounded by the wiper cleaning area. Other than that, within the wiper cleaning area no device should protrude more than 40mm.
So it’s perfectly legal for example to have the device in the top left, bottom right or beside the rear view mirror where the device doesn’t contravene the above rules. Pity the plods don’t know the law they’re meant to be enforcing.
What is the source of this information please? It would be useful to have chapter and verse in case of challenge by police.
M.o.T Rules of windscreen objects (e.g. stickers, passes). A good MOT tester will remove any cradles off your windscreen to pass you.
A good mot tester would fail you they are not suppose to move things. that is up to you
My MoT tester wouldn’t remove my satnavfrom where it was positioned – top right as I am short. He told me he wasn’t allowed to and couldn’t pass the car, but if I removed it he could.
How many MOT testers are “good” testers?
Brian+Robinson
Sounds like you take your unroadworthy car for MOT and blame the “good MOT tester” for failing it when he is just doing his job of testing to the standard set by DVSA. Always someone else’s fault eh????
Google this and you will see it. My link is being moderated…..
view-to-front-and-windscreen-obscuration.pdf
General Requirements
Regulation 30 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (SI 1986 No. 1078
as amended) requires that:
(1) Every motor vehicle shall be so designed and constructed that the driver thereof while
controlling the vehicle can at all times have a full view of the road and traffic ahead of
the motor vehicle.
(2) Instead of complying with the requirement of paragraph (1) a vehicle may comply with
Community Directive 77/649, 81/643, 88/366, 90/630 or, in the case of an agricultural
motor vehicle, 79/1073.
(3) All glass or other transparent material fitted to a motor vehicle shall be maintained in
such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is
beingdriven on a road.
In practice, the annual test will check that items placed in or stuck to the windscreenor surface
damage, cracks or discolouration in the windscreen do not seriously obscure the vision of the driver. In
order to better define what maybe permissible the windscreen is divided into Zones:
Zone Ais a vertical area 290mm wide, centred on the steering wheel and contained within
the swept area of the windscreen (this area is 350mm wide on vehicles over 3.5 tonnes);
and
Zone Bis the remainder of the swept area of the windscreen.
For simplicity, surface damage, cracks or discolouration, are simply referred to as damage.
In Zone A, a single damaged area shall be contained within a 10mm diameter circle. A combination of
minor damage areas shall not seriously restrict the drivers view. Windscreen stickers, or other
obstructions, shall not encroach more than 10mm.
In Zone B, a single damaged area shall be contained within a 40mm diameter circle. Windscreen
stickers, or other obstructions, shall not encroach more than 40mm.
Its from the book of bs or book of garbage
DVSA regulations on drivers view of the road is exactly that, The drivers view of the ROAD, not the pavement, bonnet or sky. A vehicle can have a crack all the way across the bottom of the screen, but if it doesn’t affect or impede the view of the road from the driving seat, it cannot fail an MOT. 40mm outside zone A ( approx width of the steering wheel) but within the swept area of the wipers is not applicable if the road view is not compromised by more than 40mm.
On a technicality, “road” is legally defined as hedgerow to hedgerow meaning a pavement could be included….
Andre I think you mean “no more than 10mm” or “should not protrude more than 10mm”. Your information regarding the 40mm restriction is also incomplete. See post from Ryan Harrison below.
With all the clutter mounted in front of a driver of a modern day Police vehicle they should practice what they preach.
If you watch the interceptors, quite often the sat nav is in the centre of the screen
The clutter is on the passenger side of traffic cars. The driver doesn’t even use the radio.
Sorry but many police cars are single crewed and there is an exemption that it is not an offence to use a radio as compared to mobile phone. If you watch any police programme you will see officers using their radios while driving even when they have a partner in the passenger seat. Bad practice, especially as many police cars have hands free radio kits.
The offence is using a communication device so radios, police or otherwise are not exempt.
True, the law makes no reference to phones, it actually refers to any hand held device. So you could get done for holding calculator while driving as well
Police are exempt. Emergency response trained officers are also exempt from obeying traffic signals and speed restrictions. All police also exempt from wearing a seatbelt. There are reasons for all of these exemptions but by all means should you need them in an emergency you tell them not to rush to get there or receive and transmit updates on their radio.
Incorrect. There is no exemption as such. If an emergency response officer causes an accident by driving without due care (through a red light) then they are treated the same as everyone else.
no doubt accounting for a number of civilian casualties or fatalities reported by media & under investigation by IOPC
Have you not watched Police Interceptors on TV?
Except when the car is single crewed!
Which is most of the time since the government cuts.
Gary Frank’s – if you are referring to police cars you need to watch Police Interceptors when they are single crewed and the driver is using his radio whilst chasing another vehicle at speed, using only one hand on the steering wheel.
No they use one attached to their uniform!!
yes but the implication of the Manchester police statement is that anywhere in front of the windscreen other than the position they’ve stated is illegal, they clearly haven’t thought this through.
Mine is attached to the top of the dashboard in the middle of the car, It does not obstruct my view of the road at all, it merely reduces the amount of the bonnet of my car that I can see and I can see the screen at the edge of my vision without moving my head and never need to take my eyes off the road. If I positioned it where they said then it would be too close and I couldn’t have it in focus at the same time as the road ahead, I’d at least have to move my eyes off the road to glance at it
If you placed the satnav where they stated, you would have to take your eyes off the road to view it! Not the best idea. Sygic do a new app to their satnav which displays the front view through the smartphone/tablet’s camera so it includes both views on the display!
my inbuilt is below the dash top line !
Then take it out and strap it in place as suggested..!!
well said. pot calling the kettle black comes to mind
The “clutter” and radio is read and operated by the observer seated in the passenger seat and not the driver. Hence the driver can concentrate on driving without the distraction of other instruments. Common sense.
Not what I’ve seen on these police programmes on tv. They need to practice what they preach.
Not when they are on their own which they are in most cases.
Wrong, what about single crewed cars that are involved in a chase, one hand on the wheel the other on his two radio.
Transmit button is on the gearstick
So you only talk when changing gear?
What use is that? He cant change gear, hold a phone and steer the car at the same time! Dont make excuses for double standards !!!
What rubbish. A policeman has his radio on his left shoulder
What if the vehicle is single crewed??
We have no single crews here in Scotland , due to our superior legal system and the requirement for corroboration . Even on the beat , officers patrol in pairs .
OCH, noooo JImmy. We dinnae dare go solo.
You have more money for those things because we in England subsidise you through the grossly unfair Barnett Formula. Heard of it?
Yet Scottish people generate £1700 a year more tax per head to the UK balance sheet than English so go figure
Monkey Nuts, you say that Scotts pay £32.69 PER WEEK, MORE tax than English workers and that it comes to the UK balance sheet rather than to Scotland. I do NOT believe that.
Not so ….Its all about how the money, fairly distributed , is organised and spent by the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish Governments. Just because the goverment in England cant prioritise and apply their funds properly is their problem somit often appears that the devolved countries appearvto have something you lot dont have…but you are not subsidising the others as while maybe having something you would like to have but dont, means we are doing without something else to get it. Your part of the UK needs to get its housekeeping right if you want these things you say we have but which you think YOU are paying for….you are not…its all how each part decides to use the money that all four parts of the UK get
Corroboration is a bonus. How can the words of a single policeman weigh heavier that that of the public, as is in England?
We have lots of single crews here in England due to our inferior government and it’s inability to provide enough money for policing, for schooling, the NHS, road repairs, street lighting that is sufficient and works, housing for the homeless, etc etc etc. The “biggest tax take per annum since records began”, that money is going somewhere, but enough of it isn’t being spent on any of the items I listed above !
Superior legal system? how many drams have you had before starting duty? Aint heard nothing that funny since I last heard Kevin Bridges! its our legal system you haggis & obviously if you need to go about in twos to collaborate your stories then the public don’t trust you much & just watch your tv like we do, scots coppers going about on their own! watch the right shows, we get them down here watching you like you watching us! We’re not all stupid sassanachs.
Scotland has its own legal system and lwn Police force
cameras provide corroboration in most cases but I do agree the need for pairs when patrolling in Glasgow. I was there many years ago for about a year and in those days Glasgow was not a place to be alone in at night.
Derek
Plus you are subsidised by our tax money which allows you to do that too.
In England we were all praying you would go independent but it seems like you lack the courage plus you like our tax money too much.
I hope next time we in England are allowed to vote as well.
Rah. you need to watch more uk police TV show, often showing lone drivers talking on hand helds.
That may be but the drivers still have individual radio units close to their shoulders and many do use them while driving……
You get your arse kicked proper if caught but look at the cops with telephones stuck in their lugs and chasing other people at 100 mph, they get away with it.
I have stuck the small round Garmin self adhesive disc below the windscreen and mounted the Satnav there. It does not obstruct my view at all.
Same here. All it takes is some common sense.
In my Focus the disc is stuck on the top of the hash immediately over the radio etc. display, so nowhere near the windscreen, in fact, so far back that I can see clearly round it anywhere I need to. Also, as I wear varifocals, it is automatically in the central, intermediate section of my lenses if I glance at it so it is automatically in focus!
My Dashcam, however, IS on the windscreen!
But as it is right at the top and immediately to the left of the rear view mirror, it doesn’t obstruct my view as I’ve no intention of plane spotting while I’m driving! The only difficulty I had was ramming the power lead behind the edge of the windscreen framing to keep it out of the way.
The unintelligent positioning of the 12v power supply in cars is a major problem in fitting anything to the screen.
I mounted the Garmin self-adhesive disc on the facia below the windscreen, and it does not obstruct my view at all.
So how do the thousands and thousands of owners of Volvo,BMW and many other vehicles with factory fitted SatNavs that are ‘Pop Up’ from within the dashboard never mind the many owners of BMW 3 series cars that have them factory installed in the lower dashboard/central area in front of the gear shifts – deal with this revelation ?
When the manufacturer type approves a car, they have a minimum forard field of vision requirements to meet. The car will be designed so that the factory pop-up screen doesn’t impinge on that field of view.
Rubbish this tweet was soon removed when questions were asked
So how do the thousands and thousands of owners of Volvo,BMW and many other vehicles with factory fitted SatNavs that are ‘Pop Up’ from within the dashboard never mind the many owners of BMW 3 series cars that have them factory installed in the lower dashboard/central area in front of the gear shifts – deal with this revelation ?
When the manufacturer type approves a car, they have a minimum forard field of vision requirements to meet. The car will be designed so that the factory pop-up screen doesn’t impinge on that field of view.
It’s about time the Police took an interest in this subject. I’ve seen satnavs mounted in just about every position which could hide a Juggernaut behind them, let alone a pushbike or motorcycle. Even right in front of the driver’s straight ahead eyeline in a delivery van.
I would be more interested if the police would attach more attention to the middle lane hoggers. The hoggers reduce a three lane motorway down to a two lane road due to the law against “undertaking” but I have a suspicion that they don’t have the intelligence to recognise this fact.
It goes without saying that the “fast lane” hoggers defy description.
First the heading should be ‘is your sat nav illegally placed?’ I have a Garmin which I can update on my computer easily . In the past I have toured many places in Europe and fed in all the different hotel destinations before setting off from home. Saved time later. Like many people I put the the sat nav in the centre and low down on the screen, this way my passenger can see it and also help by making changes if necessary.
Shame on PetrolPrices for repeating this nonsense – it has already been slated in the press! Anyone watching the various TV programmes on Police activities will see that they mostly use the centre of the windscreen for their satnav, no doubt for the same reason my wife and I do – so that we can both see it. When driving together we navigate together, both being drivers, just as we do while riding on our motorcycle! We’ll carry on doing our own thing thanks.
So ridiculous you’re not allowed to touch your phone whilst in a car mount. Eating, drinking, smoking at the wheel, all legal and massively more dangerous. Touching your phone is no different to changing the radio station/adjusting volume.
Eating, drinking and smoking are not legal whilst driving as they can cause a distraction and you can be prosecuted for undue care and attention.
You are wrong. Check your facts chap. They are legal. However, if it can be proven they are a distraction, only then can you be prosecuted.
Do not try it around Gtr Manchester as you WILL get clobbered.
I think the article is a bit misleading. The headline is attention-grabbing but as soon as you start to read, you realise there are other places where it isn’t a problem either. The big problem with having it at the bottom right hand side of the screen (depending on the car) is that it adds to the obscuration created by the A Pillar – behind which we already manage to lose cyclists and motorcyclists on occasions! If you have a sports car in which you sit low and the car has a high bonnet line, bottom right hand cornder of the screen can be the WORST place to put it!
I only use satnav for verbal directions and place it where I have to stop before I can see it !
My Audi has a pop up unit in the centre of the dash. Is this illegal to use?
No as it is part of the vehicle and as such is type approved
Hi I use the Garmin nuvi navcam in a ford focus mk3 and because of the shape of the instrument cowel using the navcamon the right hand side of the screen puts it too high a I find it less of a problem positioning it central as low as possible
I once saw someone driving with their sat nav positioned dead ahead of them at eye level (almost like they were playing a video game). I’m not convinced I had seen (or have seen since) anything quite so unintelligent…
Yep, me too and not just once. Quite unbelievable really…
Yes, seen this several times. Scary!
I have! On the A11 into Norwich, morning rush hour, there used to be a woman with a cradle on her steering wheel so she could read a paperback book whilst she was driving!
I have on numerous occasions observed someone eating a bowl of cornflakes at the wheel. I am certain they must be a cereal offender.
Driving through Sevenoaks last year, I was following a Driving school car and noticed that the sat nav was mounted right in the middle of the windscreen underneath the rear view mirror, I hope when the car is taken for a driving test that the examiner immediately points this out and has the sat nav moved to a correct position.
The important point is that anything preventing the driver from having a fully unobscured view of the road ahead is illegal, whether it’s a satnav, mobile phone, deodorant card, furry dice or whatever, it should fail the car’s MOT. How would you live with yourself if you killed an infant because it was obscured by the device mounted on the windscreen?
My MOT failed because my satnav holder was below the rear view mirror.
I had to reposition it myself..
You would have thought that the MOT test centre would just move it rather than fail my test.
Sorry fella but they are not allowed to move stuff, though some do like replacing light bulbs or windscreen wipers but not supposed too. They could lose their ticket for mots.
OK, accepted only legal place for SatNav is bottom right of windscreen, where do I place my generic Dashcam now recommended by almost all major insurers and remain legal?
No more than 10mm within area directly in your line of sight ahead of you cleaned by driver’s windscreen wiper, or no more than 40mm into remaining area cleaned by windscreen wipers seems to be the advice. You should also note that (apparently) the dashcam screen should not be permanently visible to the driver. (On mine the screen switches off after 20 seconds)
Behind/ in front of the rear screen mirror I find best for dashcam the the mirror blocks out the screen from the drivers eyes.
I have a nextbase dashcam that is fixed onto the rear view mirror. When I use a satnav it is fitted to the air vent in the centre console. So neither affects my view out of the windscreen. I only have a quick glance at the satnav every two or three miles if necessary, I do listen to the voice prompts though. My dashcam is also hardwired so it is always on
There are a number of issues in relation to positioning of not just sat navs but also bulky “dangly things” things on reat view mirrors, these can take the form of decorative stuff such as the dice or golf balls but often religious symbols, taxis are frequent flouters.These can seriously obsruct vision and yet I have never encountered any police action in respect of them. Setting up a sat nav can be a problem with some cars because switching off the ignition can immobilise the 12v power take off
Nonsense. It depends on many factors, including eyesight, and whether you are driving a LHD car as i often do.
I always drive with my wife.Therefore I leave it all to her.I fix the satnav on her side of the windscreen and take instructions from her.
Your wife ? That’s crazy.
Nothing changes then.LOL
What about built in satnavs? They are in the dash below the window on the left hand side. I take it this must be legal.
I’m clearly a dying breed (nearer the proverbial grave than average), as I never use satnav for navigational purposes. I have a Jag with a fairly sophisticated built in device, and find it useful only to display congestion on intended route and enable choice of an optional route..
I seem to be one of those blessed with an in-built giroscope and I much prefer to peruse Google Maps and select preferred route before leaving home and can then drive anywhere in UK from home to destination without referring to a navigational aid again. Only exception is if using a lot of unclassified roads where complexity of turns requires refresh of memory. As one further blessed with a 7 day weekend where time is less critical, we’ll often do lengthy journeys on unclassifieds and B Roads, and thus don’t add to traffic on major routes. (We do also stop or slow and wave on locals who clearly have a wish to complete journey quicker).
With an integrated satnav, there is no choice.
When sitting upright in my drivers seat my vision is blocked by the rear view mirror and housing, the angled corner posts between the windscreen and side windows which seem to get thicker with each new car and my Wife’s sun visor which she always has down to block out the ridiculously bright red lights from the car in front! My view is already restricted from 180 down to about 50 degrees. There is no space for a SatNav on the window.
…… Which are all fixed items in the car so are not classed as obscuring view to the front.
My satnav is in the dash panel where the manufactures put it. This requires one to take eyes off road to check it and is consequently as distracting as an in-car mobile phone which also displays on the same screen so should they be legal at all.
Then there is the question of dashcams. Where should they be located?
What about the upcoming “Heads-up” displays. And, what will happen if an autonomous vehicle has an “accident” as I am sure one will given the time.
Am I prejudiced or is this all getting very silly and just perpetuating the old situation that you cannot drive on the road without breaking the law i.e. crossing a pedestrian crossing. It seems to me we are fast approaching a police state and they wonder why they are losing the respect of the public when they refuse to investigate burglaries unless the value exceeds a certain amount.
Over the years I have known several very nice policemen, in connection with the IAM of which I am a member, all of which, were not impressed by the management of their force.
I expect the manufacturer also positioned the sspeedometer where you have to take your eyes off the road to read it! (And your rev counter, and you fuel gauge, and your temperature gauge, and your radio….)
And don’t input your HOME address cos if your car and keys are stolen they’ll have access to your life.
I haven’t changed my ‘Home’ address since I moved but previously I had it set further down the road from me because, obviously, as soon as I got close to home, I knew where I was without the Satnav!
My ”home” address will take you to Meadowhall Shopping centre in Sheffield. (I live near Stockport).
well if that’s the case I have a problem in some cars iv had the satnav in in the way when its at the bottom right coner.so iv had to place it up next to rear view mirror so I could see clearly.
Please read the tweet again you’ve missed important facts.
I have been driving (motor bikes, cars, 7.5T GVW horseboxes, motorhomes) since 1954 and the only vehicle in which I have had a sat-nav (factory fitted) has been my current car which I have owned for eight years. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles around Europe, all with paper maps which, for me, I find to be more user friendly than using sat-nav, which can be both bothersome and distracting, even with the voice guidance. A few minutes planning and making paper notes before starting a journey to an unfamiliar location is a far superior procedure because one can then build a mental topographical picture which a sat-nav can never provide. However, I have occasionally found the gizmo useful as a street map in a strange town, but using it for that purpose is probably illegal because, as the article says, one’s eyes are not always on the road. I can appreciate the value of a good sat-nav for those constantly on the road and needing to find, say, delivery addresses, but for people to claim they can’t live with out their sat-nav is crass nonsense. For most of us they are just another status gimmick. Something else to go wrong and one of those fantastic devices which one can never manage without even if one never uses it! A clear example of marketing ‘hidden persuasion’ at work upon us, yet again, even though we will most certainly deny that..
I used to have a roadmap on the seat beside me, and put it on the steering wheel when I needed to consult it, a fairly dangerous operation compared with a satnav giving you step by step instructions, even when it’s pitch black and the planned route is blocked because of an accident. As for reading paper notes whilst you’re driving…
Well mine sits at the bottom of my windscreen above the center of the dash almost to the point of touching the top of the dashboard, it doesn’t intrude on my vision whatsoever. What about these folk that hang alsorts of rubbish from their interior mirror, surely that’s more illegal that a precariously placed satnav. Yes I see on a daily basis stupidly positioned satnavs. So come on people use your common sense here, it’s not rocket science is it???
I bought a Corsa where the Sat Nav was built in with my radio which was located way below top of dash board. I know you are only supposed to listen to the instructions but it’s so very tempting to keep looking at the screen to see what is coming up and how far is it to your destination. Best place is bottom right corner of windscreen where you can drive with no obstructions and yet you can keep an eye on what and where you4 going.
Do not place the sat nav in front of the windscreen wiper arc as that is the most section that the driver looks at .
Of course many modern cars have a built in Sat Nav. Before retiring I was a customer service engineer, there were no Sat Nav in this days as I covered Cumbria, North Lancs and sometimes had to help out in Manchester and the North East, so I had stack of A-Z books.
I class my Sat Nav as an aid to driving, but it does let you concentrate on driving, as does cruise control and speed control. I have a Toyota RAV4 hybrid which doesn’t need plugged in. If going through stop/start traffic the 2.3 litre engine turns its self off and electric motors kick in, but if the batteries are low, the engine restarts itself.My Sat Nav even speaks to me if I’m exceeding the speed limit. I’m disabled so don’t use the car much but on a 60 miles round trip I get around 56 mpg, and about 35 mpg. Sorry for going of topic, but hope contributors won’t mind.
Jim
Silverdale via Carnforth, North Lancs
Sorry, but this really annoys me.
“doesn’t need plugged in.” It should either be doesn’t need to be plugged in, or doesn’t need plugging in.
What has happened to our grasp of English?
Cumbrian dialect! Also common around the South West of Scotland. They wouldn’t say “this chair needs to be fixed” they’d say “this chair needs fixed”. All part of the great range of vocabulary and dialect that makes this country such a wonderful soundscape as you travel around – sorry if this causes you distress. You might be able to get therapy (if not compensation) I guess?
I put my Sat Nav as low on the windscreen as possable under the rear vieue mirror. From my driving possioun the sdreen is lower than my bonnet & clear vieue all around the sat nav