Last week, we told you that the government were looking to bring forward the ban on the sale of new fossil fuelled cars (as the single, motive power source), from 2040 to 2035, in a bid to show their green credentials.
The Transport Secretary stated: “We must go further to protect our environment and improve our competitive edge. If we’re to become the world-leader in green technology, we must always be looking to expand our ambitions. The Government’s advisory committee on climate change has said that 2035 is the date to aim for”.
That’s all well and good, but as many of you pointed out in the comments, there are significant financial implications.
1/3 cheaper to run
There seems to be a lot of misinformation when it comes to costs associated with going green, least of all a clear understanding of what it actually costs to run an all-electric vehicle; when averaged out per charge, how much will a single mile cost you?
To be clear, this isn’t about purchase price, maintenance cost, battery leasing & purchasing, but just mile for mile cost of energy – electricity versus unleaded and diesel if you will.
None of us would be surprised to hear that electricity miles are cheaper than fossil-fuelled miles, but being able to put it in to context does give us a little more insight and understanding.
The most frugal electric vehicles (the KIA e-Niro and Renault Zoe) offer a range of 33.1 miles to one pound (£1), the best diesel (Honda Civic Saloon 1.6i DTEC and the Ford Focus 1.5 EcoBlue) aren’t even close; 10.8 miles for each pound (£1) of ‘energy’.
Make up to an £11,740 difference
It could be argued that the price differential between the KIA e-Niro (£32,995) and the Honda Civic (£21,255) would buy you an awful lot of miles – nearly 128,000, but what of the Renault Zoe? The list price of the Zoe is actually less than the Civic, only by £35, but that’s not important; it isn’t just getting close to traditional ICE vehicles, it’s beating them. (And that’s before we look at any assistance to buy).
However, taking the Zoe as an example, you hire the batteries, and the bigger than annual mileage, the bigger the financial charge; with annual mileage of 10,500, you’d be paying £99 per month for the hire of the battery – nearly £1,200 on top of the purchase price.
Further still, the obvious comparison between the practicality, styling or just plain old ‘want’ of the vehicles isn’t to be underestimated. The Zoe is a small hatchback, ideally suited to town driving and loading up with shopping, whereas the Civic has more space, more range, looks smarter (although of course, that’s subjective) and is made by Honda, which means it should outlast the cockroaches that see off a nuclear holocaust.
Cheap motoring
For a long time, people have complained that electric vehicles don’t have enough range, are too expensive to purchase, not as practical, won’t fit their need because they can’t tow the Moon behind them – there’s always been a reason (usually financial) as to why they just don’t work (for them).
But today, the electric vehicle market has evolved into something that’s closer in price, with some models beating traditional ICE vehicle prices, a viable alternative for many motorists with range anxiety, and they offer all the performance that’s realistically usable on our road network.
Without doubt, there will be some motorists that an electric vehicle won’t suit, or isn’t yet a viable alternative, and even for those it does work for, you can’t help feeling that even now, there’s a compromise to be made if you choose electricity over internal combustion.
But let’s not forget, mainstream battery-electric vehicles have only really been in production for around ten years, and within that timeframe, battery prices have dropped to around a tenth of what they were, ranges have doubled, even tripled, performance has gone up, charging times have come down, and the breadth of the compromise is narrowing with each day that passes.
As a performance car engineer, I really never thought I’d see the day where electricity could take on fossil fuel in a straight fight and win, and while we’re still not quite there yet, you can guarantee that within this next decade, fossil fuel will be outdated and outclassed.
Perhaps the time is coming where the only drawback to owning an electric vehicle will be the tariffs imposed on us for charging them, and using the roads – much the same for fossil fuels now.
What do you think to electric vehicles? If price wasn’t a consideration, would you own one? Are they practical enough right now? Let us know in the comments.
You have not mentioned hybrid vehicles, Best of both worlds or worst of both? I run a hybrid SUV, for its size its fast and economical and if both battery power and IC are combined the torque is enormous.
What happens if I live on level 12 of a tower block, or an Edwardian terrace house with a front door on the pavement? Is there a sufficient supply of materials to make all the batteries in the future, bearing in mind lorries, ambulances, Fire engines, tractors, Buses, Coaches, Taxis,, boats and aircraft. ?
Lithium is number 3 on periodic table, we’re never going to run out of it. But more importantly, for the copper, nickel and cobalt we require the keep point is moving to a circular economy where unlike laptop and toothbrush batteries we recycle those materials we’ve already gone to the effort of getting out of the ground.
Helium is number 2 on the Periodic Table and we are running out of that (it’s needed for MRI scanners). You can’t just make more lithium out of heavier elements, or it would be prohibitively expensive to do so. If the relevant element is involved in a chemical reaction in the battery, then you still have to go through an expensive process to recover it.
I am sure you are being tongue in cheek, but helium is running out because it is a very light gas so leaks through container walls and disappears into the air, whereas lithium is a solid that doesn’t. However, helium can be obtained ethically whereas most lithium comes from DR Congo and also China/Tibet.
What about the batteries?
How long do they last? How much to replace them at the end of their life – nobody tells you about this.
It’s not just about buying a green very expensive vehicle which is outside of most families budget.
What about the batteries? EV’s have been on the market around 10 years now, and I don’t see too many stories yet of them all falling over. Key point is nearly all EV’s have 8 year warranty for battery, much longer than ICE vehicles. If an engine goes bang after 8 years do you think this in any cheaper than a replacement battery should that happen?
I can tell you Valg a Toyota Prius we bought 18 yrs ago has just had a new battery at £1700.
If you have your car serviced regularly each year at our Toyota dealer they guarantees the battery for 15yrs.
I am about to order the New Zoe and I asked the question on how much it would cost to replace the battery outwith warranty. The response from the workshop manager is £5k.
If they become cheaper due to advances in technology, all the better; however, they could get more expensive due to shortages of raw materials.
I am willing to take the risk…
I couldn’t afford a new vehicle of any type, buying a second hand EV would be a serious ‘no no’ as I would end up having to fork out for a new set of batteries which would be probably more than the cost of a second hand car. I will be sticking with petrol or diesel for the foreseeable future.
EV’s have been on the market in volume for 10 years now, where are all these cars requiring second batteries? Don’t believe the lies that are being spread about EV’s
Not sure it’s a matter of ‘lies’ it’s the interpretation of an 8 yr warranty equaling the expected life of the battery. Whereas it might be fair to assume that to provide an 8yr warranty manufacturers are pretty confident they won’t be paying out loads of warranty claims i.e. batteries easily have an operational life comfortably longer than 8yrs.
I own 2 Toyota Hybrids. One is 2006 model and has travelled 85000 miles is is sweet as as a nut with No issues, drives beautifully. The other is 2009 model which I purchased at 100,000 miles. It too is very good and I have travelled 9500 miles. I can say these two Pruis batteries are perfect. My advise Jo90, the sooner you make a change the less your running costs and Co footprint will be.
You don’t, mention the cost of maintenance which is much lower with far fewer moving parts that need servicing. I suggest you factor this into the above.
actually the only maintenace that disappears is the engine maintenance. the brakes can still seize through lack of use, there will still be suspension and steering components that wear, there are still going to be cabin air filters, all you lose is the oil and air filter change, possibly fuel filter and spark plugs, depending on the engine. cost of those doesnt add up to much. i have a diesel car, do my own servicing and have yet to spend £50 on a service for the parts.
Catalytic exhaust comes to mind also
So, I live in a first floor flat, no hope at charging an electric vehicle, in Cornwall – realistic charging point count as rare as seagulls not nicking your pasty, where does an electric vehicle become realistic proposition? Wages here certainly don’t make it easy – infrastructure doesn’t make it feasible to travel everywhere by public transport, my car wasn’t bought new and is a diesel, as that’s the most economic form of engine in the real world given my location, wages and living arrangements – and perish the thought that I should want to drive out of County – my nearest motorway is 100 miles away, so any car needs to be able to do that without recharging – again infrastructure out of the cities not yet caught up with the central decisions to outlaw fossil fuel vehicles one way ot another. I’m on a safe bet there won’t be an exchange scheme where I take my car and straight swap for a shiny small electric vehicle, the expectation that I can afford a new car being made by high wage earners is frankly offensive, and I encourage them all to live on my salary for a year – heck, I’ll volunteer to swap pay cheques with them for 12 months ;). Rant over, I’ve lost my thread.
There is no practical reason why a charging point can’t be accommodated where you park your car (except cost), they are popping up everywhere – Remember 50 years ago we managed to get a human ‘Walking on the Moon’.
And just obstruct the pavement for pedestrians as well as many charging points do today
Cost must always be in the equation – However I purchased a used BMW i3 having followed its evolution from concept. It has a range of about 125 miles but, also has a ‘Range Extender’, a small petrol engine under the boot which cuts in when epower is down to 7% or you can over-ride at 75% – You may say this defeats the object of having an electric car but, over 95% of my miles are ‘pure electric’ without using the ‘Range Extender’ which gives you total ‘peace of mind’ about running out of fuel and being stranded. In fact I am normally requested (or automatically) to run it for maintenance purposes. I live in Camberley and regularly travel to Bristol and with one Service Station charge on the M3 can cover the 180 miles without the ‘Range Extender’.
It is classy, dead smooth, high quality and can easily accommodate a washing machine with the rear seats down – What more can you ask for – But there is no escape from cost with high depreciation and a new i3 now costing around £45,000.
I do love it though.
We don’t all have a very well paid job which clearly you do, living in Camberley !
wish I could afford it. have diesel BMW at the moment, which will have to go soon….it’s a very good car, nothing wrong with it. not happy
I’d have an electric vehicles right now it would suit my needs!
I wonder about the suitability later on though as the masses take to them. I’m referring mostly to ‘re charging, I’ve seen where quotes of 15 minutes are achievable for a full charge. Can you imagine the queues of angry drivers waiting in a long line ? It’s not going to go down well, some people think they’re just going to plug their car into the charger an go sit in the cafe for a nice relaxing coffee and wait for it to charge! I don’t share that view, I think it’s going to be a source of stress putting it mildly..
Most EVS at the moment are charged most of the time at home, mine by solar panels. I rarely use a charge point as my Kia e Niro has a range of 450km. Also the car and battery have a warranty of 7 years, 150,000 km.
So your car has a range of 450km which equals 280 miles on a good day. So a 2way trip would have to be 140miles each way hoping you do not end up in a crawling traffic jam. I think the comment by Davmag is making is if you were to exceed your claimed mileage on a trip you would have to at some point use a public charging point which if on a motorway service station as an example you would be in a queue with a lot of other cars waiting to get yours recharged. So if you were 10th in the queue for a 15min charge this would equate to a minimum 165mins not including connecting and disconnecting time before proceeding on your journey, plus you would have to eat and drink in your car as the queue will move every 15 to 20minutes.
So what use is a 7-year warranty & 150,000km going to help you in this scenario, it certainly won’t help you if you’re in a hurry which equals as Davmag states = Stress.
Yes I would. At me last change I considered all the options but price and the untried new/improved batteries and their cost made me stay diesel. Which is what the Government were promoting.a few years ago.
Having selected Optima with its many features I feel this is Kia pre trial road vehicle testing a different way of motoring.
Lane control, overtaking audible alarm, cruise control with safety features when in traffic., Auto parking both kerbside and car parks, movable light beams when cornering, auto dip, comfort and facilities fir rear passengers to name but few. I feel this will be Kia’s next move with a larger family saloon.
Roll on 2020 ……..
I think the nail on the head moment is the last paragraph, “tariffs imposed for charging”, this is inevitable as the cost to fuel an electric car over time tends to zero.
I often drive a leaf, and rapid chargers out of convenience cost 35p kwh, the battery is never empty but let’s say it is, 40kwh*0.35p is £14 to fill and gets around 150 miles. For those that say my diesel get 600 miles (my qashqai) that’s £56 in electric, much more so in diesel for a 55l tank these days, maybe £70 in diesel.
But consider that most people, not living in a tower block, who have an EV charge at home at around 14p, kwh , you’re down to £22.4 per equivalent diesel tank. ECON7 9p kwh, £14.4, EV tariff during low demand 5p kwh (octopus) that’s £8 for 600 miles equivalent tank.
And then, the hippy holy grail of course, is home solar+battery’s which means you can drive your car on sunlight, for free!
wow! is it free to get solar panels fitted to the house now then? and are the panels delivered by hippie hugging sunlight powered delivery trucks too?
Our solar panels were fitted completely free of charge!
No one mentions the environmental cost of sourcing the material for these batteries, how long they last and how they will be disposed of. With every action there is a reaction, we could be drilling for oil and making internal combustion cars again within 30 yearswhen we find we can,t generate enough power to keep the lights on and charge millions of electric cars.
Ian, enough energy arrives from the sun everyday to power the earths energy needs for a year. We just don’t use it, onshore and offshore wind are by far the cheapest means of generating power, and ultimately wind is just temperature difference generated by, the sun.
Batteries won’t be disposed of, they will be recycled, companies are going to the effort as you rightly say of sourcing these materials to then landfill them
its the same as the ‘new saviour’ for eco home heating, with these underground heat pumps. how long will it be before they start screaming about the emergency that the planets core is cooling too fast?
I’m something of a petrol head – a breed that will, no doubt, become a PC dinosaur as we’re all indoctrinated to turn against fossil fuels – but I’m a mechanical engineer by training and live the engineering that goes into internal combustion engines. And I love driving them. I can not begin to imagine getting any sort enjoyment out of driving an electric motor.
Aside from the emotional prejudice against electric cars, my main reason for not wanting one is that you cannot recharge one as conveniently and quickly as I can fill up my petrol or diesel car when I need to. The risk of being stranded or having to plan journeys around charging points and times is something I don’t like the idea of at all, and with the fantastic low fuel consumptions that modern fossil fuel cars can achieve, together with filters to remove many harmful exhaust gas components, pollution levels per car are massively down on what they were even 25 years ago.
I have to confess, though, to deliberately driving old cars, simply because I neither want, nor need, most of the electronic gizmos that festoon modern cars and habitually go wrong so the car spends as much time in a workshop as it does on the road. I prefer the simplicity of older cars so that I can concentrate on driving without some dammed “driver assistant” trying to muscle in and make decisions for me, and thereby breaking my concentration, which I consider very dangerous., rather than improving safety.
the pleasure of driving
Ranges for battery cars are quoted for optimum conditions. What is the range going to be in winter when a car has headlights, wipers and heater on?
I live in a very hilly area of the north of England, how far would I get in the winter with the lights and heater on ? Not very far I suspect.
Too true – and what stops ICE cars parking at charging points because they are closer to the shop doors?
The writer should have read the VED and mileage chargd article.
£1 of petrol or diesel is mostly tax.
Correct the figures for tax and the result will be very different.
[And as soon as the proportion of electric cars increases there will be a new way of taxing them.]
I think the comparison would benefit from illustrating a third dimension….those who lease an all electric or hybrid over say four years and about 8K miles p.a. Quoting on the road costs and residual values then calculating the depreciation over the time frame then adding fuel costs is an unwieldy formula. The one example I understand is that a Kia Niro Hybrid costs £234 a month (on a 4 year period doing 8K per annum with servicing included) and delivers 60mpg balanced for all journeys over the year.
I think it would be helpful to quote some figures based on a standard example of a lease deal. The formula of Cost price less the residual value and a reasonable calculation of mpg or indeed miles per Kilowatt Hour would be useful in making decisions about going electric or even hybrid.
If house central heating is switching from natural gas to hydrogen where are the hydrogen powered cars?
Simplistic, short term thinking by quick fix, closed minds Mr Jones. Hydrogen fuelled cars, buses, lorries, vans, etc, etc is exactly the way we should be going. Cut out the problematic range issues, cut out the lengthy recharging times, produce the hydrogen on site at existing filling stations.
It’s a ‘no brainer’. Unfortunately, we have no brainers in charge of policy making. Lol.
We have a Kia Niro ev. Had it since April. It really does do between 250 and 300 miles. It suits us fine. Its quick and a doddle to drive. We are fortunate with off street parking. Rarely use public chargers. For the mileage we do its not the cheapest option but I decided to try it. I think the comment I would give is that todays fossil fuel cars will not survive in the future. An alternative will be needed. You may not like electric as the alternate but if you want to keep motoring you will have some sort of a change. If not get used to travelling by bus.
In those circumstances, I would have an all electric vehicle. As things stand, I do not own a new car, boot go I change my car more than once every three years, so an electric vehicle is beyond my. Limited pocket even ifI were to consider three year old model. My annual mileage would be within even the range of a three year old model, although the hire of batteries would be a problem.
I drive a 2014 Vauxhall Ampera which is a fantastic EREV car I charge at home so no charging at petrol stations. I last put petrol in my car last April at a cost of £32.00 and I still have a range of 170 miles on petrol if required. I would say to any one looking for a car very cheap to run and the added bonus of no road tax to look at a second hand Vauxhall Ampera electric car with a 1.4 petrol engine with a range of over 300 miles after you run out of electric power of up to 50 miles. Check out Quentin Wilsons 2012- 2015 Vauxhall Ampera review. My average miles per gallon of fuel on the computer is 169 miles per gallon, Quentin Wilson managed to get over 2000 miles out of the car on one tank of fuel.
How will the used batteries from electric car be recycled?
Brian.
I can’t afford an electric car or s hybrid.
Hdrogen should be the answer as both hydrogen burn engines exist & hydrogen cells exist that generate electricity. Hydrogen can be filled up like petrol using the existing garage network, as opposed to creating a whole new infrastructure for charging electric cars which in any event will always take more time than filling up with hydrogen. Hydrogen could be taxed like peterol . Hydrogen solves the problem of range & is far lighter so more efficient than the ever larger batteries produced as they try to improve range. As we are moving away from generating electricity using fossil fuels, we are reducing not increasing our current capacity; so where will all the extra electricity come from if we are all soon to be charging our electric cars? I suppose one day the penny will drop & everyone who bought an electric car will be asked to scrap it & change to hydrogen.
no one is mentioning the environmental impact of extracting the Lithium used in batteries and the manufacturing of them.
I wonder what will ultimately happen to all the classic and vintage cars when eventually all vehicles will go electric (or some other yet to surface green source) Will petrol still be available and for how long. All of these cars, trucks, motorcycles etc., some dating back to the beginning of the last century can’t just be archived, they are part of the World’s heritage.
I drive a hybrid and get easily 60 mpg using it on regular long motorway trips and around town. If I stay around town I use virtually no petrol for weeks. The cost of electricity via a standard domestic socket to recharge whenever I’m parked on my drive is pennies per day. And it’s a great quiet drive. I’m contemplating an all electric car soon.
Reading these comments it’s like Brexit all over again – passionate haters and likers all round. But there is much misinformation.
Having owned a pure EV as my only car for 4 years, I know something about the reality – for my lifestyle at least.
For the record I totally get that the charging infrastructure means that EVs are not yet for those that don’t have access to an off-road private charge point. I also accept that the cars are, as yet, mostly too expensive for everyone.
1. I get over 80 miles per £1 when charging at home (on an EV tariff) which for me is 90% of the time – much more than suggested by the article. Totally get that costs rise if you have to charge on longer journeys. However I drove to Donegal from Surrey via Glasgow (670 miles) at Easter and that journey cost me £22 in charging – plus a few coffees! Even paying 35p per kWh (typical of rapids) this would only have been about £37. However I accept that (on the consumption of my vehicle) this 35p cost is equivalent to about 12 miles per £1 – so not much better than an economical diesel.
2. I’m alway being asked how long it takes to charge on a journey. It really isn’t that you have to hang around. I like to stop for a break every couple of hours and sticking it on charge for 20 minutes adds about 85 Miles and for a meal break you easily double that. Motorway chargers are always near the cafe! So in reality it doesn’t take me any longer than a fossil car to complete a journey. Oh and before you ask – I’m driving normally at 70 on the motorways.
3. My previous EV was 3 years old when I swapped it and there was no noticeable degradation in the battery. I would not hesitate to buy a second hand EV. Even if there is a battery problem the faulty cells can be replaced – not the whole battery. Reading around it’s clear that EV battery technology is evolving rapidly and it looks like it is getting to the point when they are expected to last the life of the car. The concerns on the environmental impact of the raw materials in EV batteries, especially at scale, are real enough but are also being reduced over time. Let’s not forget it took many years to evolve ICE cars – why would we not expect the same for EVs.
Can I ask the question what’s happened to hydrogen powered cars. As we already have the network of petrol stations across the country and watching Top Gear and an untold amount of others journalists sayinģ this would be the perfect solution. And the only emissions they produce is water. And and hydrogen is in abundance..
Will this be like it was for VHS and Betamax for those who can remember. And what are the long term costs for both and is battery power just being driven buy big business as there’s more potential to earn larger profits from it, as we will be a captive audience always having to return to the Main Dealerships I wonder as the world seem to be driven by profit and greed.